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Over 300 Campers Evacuated - California

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  • [Wildfires] Over 300 Campers Evacuated - California

    Another wildfire in California caused the evacuation of over 300 campers in the foothills of the San Bernandino area.

    Originally posted by Reuters
    At least five campgrounds near the fire were evacuated, sending 300 campers, including 130 children with special needs, to a nearby high school, the Los Angeles Fire Department tweeted.
    100 acres were destroyed but there were not injuries or structural damages reported.
    Dozens of children were among more than 300 people evacuated from campgrounds early on Saturday as firefighters battled brush fires burning in Southern California's drought-parched foothills, fire
    Diane Lane likes this.
    Where there is an beginning, there is an end.
    Where there is an end, there is a new beginning.

  • #2
    Goodness, me! California gets hotter and hotter by the day. It's easy for the wildfires to jump when the atmosphere is hot and conducive. 100 acres of vegetation being gutted is sad news. The state government should learn its lessons and take up long-term measures to bring down the number of such mishaps.

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    • #3
      This seemed like a side effect of the drought. Forest fires can spread much more faster in California due to the high temperature they have from the drought. Do they know if this is an accident just like those forest fires that happened because campers neglected their camp fire or someone throw his cigarette to a dried bush? Or is this an incident that naturally occurs just like those forest fired that happened because a lighting hits a tree.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bonzer View Post
        Goodness, me! California gets hotter and hotter by the day. It's easy for the wildfires to jump when the atmosphere is hot and conducive. 100 acres of vegetation being gutted is sad news. The state government should learn its lessons and take up long-term measures to bring down the number of such mishaps.
        Problem is with the rising temperatures and the lack of moisture, there is little they can do to take precaution. With the dryness of the climate and the drought as bad as it is, it is leaving things vulnerable to set ablaze. Even a piece of glass sitting at the right angle could start a fire and once started, they spread quickly with all the dry dead brush.
        Where there is an beginning, there is an end.
        Where there is an end, there is a new beginning.

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        • #5
          The State must take control of all planning and development, increasing water retention infrastructure and severely limiting and regulating all development to conform to the realities of the climate.
          AS stated by the article firefighters have just contained 5% of the fire which is approximately 3,500 acres in size,they really need to look at alternate and viable water resources.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Billy View Post
            Do they know if this is an accident just like those forest fires that happened because campers neglected their camp fire or someone throw his cigarette to a dried bush? Or is this an incident that naturally occurs just like those forest fired that happened because a lighting hits a tree.
            The investigation is still ongoing and a cause has yet to be determined, however, investigators have confirmed that the tanker planes tasked with response efforts were delayed for at least 25 minutes because at least one drone was operating in the area. Investigators are still unclear as to what the drone was doing near the fire.

            However, authorities announced that the June 17 wildfire in the San Bernardino Mountains that burned four buildings and 49 square miles of forest land was caused by human activity.

            bala Which article are you referring to that claims that the fire is just 5 percent contained? The article that was linked in the opening post by Kimberly states that the fire is now 45 percent contained. The latest news as of tonight is that 75 percent of the fire is now contained.
            Diane Lane likes this.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by dillinger10 View Post

              The investigation is still ongoing and a cause has yet to be determined, however, investigators have confirmed that the tanker planes tasked with response efforts were delayed for at least 25 minutes because at least one drone was operating in the area. Investigators are still unclear as to what the drone was doing near the fire.

              However, authorities announced that the June 17 wildfire in the San Bernardino Mountains that burned four buildings and 49 square miles of forest land was caused by human activity.

              bala Which article are you referring to that claims that the fire is just 5 percent contained? The article that was linked in the opening post by Kimberly states that the fire is now 45 percent contained. The latest news as of tonight is that 75 percent of the fire is now contained.
              Drat then it must have been an old article that i must have referred to.
              Sorry for the wrong information.!!
              Is the area that the fire is spread over too completely wrong ??..California is already down with drought and water scarcity,how many gallons do you think will this fire have taken,assuming it being spread across to 3500 odd acres.Can u give it a rough estimate as well ?/

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              • #8
                Campers needed to be responsible before leaving the camp. If they want to smoke a cigarette they need to wet the cigarette butts with water to make sure it won't lit fire to dried leaves or grass. They needed to make sure the fire they created at camp should be snuffed and doesn't leave any ember. They need to respect the residents of that forests, the animals and the trees. They don't own the place, they were only visitors. The only forest fires that should happen are the natural ones.
                Diane Lane likes this.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bala View Post
                  Drat then it must have been an old article that i must have referred to.
                  Sorry for the wrong information.!!
                  Is the area that the fire is spread over too completely wrong ??..California is already down with drought and water scarcity,how many gallons do you think will this fire have taken,assuming it being spread across to 3500 odd acres.Can u give it a rough estimate as well ?/
                  Everything else appears to be correct. According to this Mercury News report, the fire burned 3,500 acres and approximately 6 1/2 square miles. The report was updated today stating that the blaze is now 95 percent contained.

                  I was unable to find any concrete information as to how much water has been used to date to contain the fire although this article makes mention of "thousands of gallons."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dillinger10 View Post

                    Everything else appears to be correct. According to this Mercury News report, the fire burned 3,500 acres and approximately 6 1/2 square miles. The report was updated today stating that the blaze is now 95 percent contained.

                    I was unable to find any concrete information as to how much water has been used to date to contain the fire although this article makes mention of "thousands of gallons."
                    Thousands of gallon ain't suffice as a number :P
                    I know you to be a master of statistics,i am sure you will find me the exact Qty,because we can then know how much of a scarcity will california be facing in the due course of time.
                    I reckon minimum 10000 gallons of water must have been used.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bala View Post
                      Thousands of gallon ain't suffice as a number :P
                      I know you to be a master of statistics,i am sure you will find me the exact Qty,because we can then know how much of a scarcity will california be facing in the due course of time.
                      I reckon minimum 10000 gallons of water must have been used.
                      Unfortunately, despite my best efforts and wading through 50 or so articles regarding the wildfire, none of them provided the exact amount of water used to battle the wildfires.

                      I did find this article that claims 720,000 gallons of water and 330 gallons of foam were used during a recent fire that engulfed 60-70 cars so I would imagine at least that amount of water would have been used in fighting these wildfires also.

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                      • #12
                        I know that the ocean is a good distance from the fire outbreak, but they are close enough I don't understand why they did not just use sea water. Sea water contains salt which can put out a fire better then regular water can... of course there would be minor ecological damages because the salt could kill some of the plant life that is not effected by the fire, but they could stop the fire faster and save more of that plant life then by just letting it rage on.
                        Diane Lane likes this.
                        Where there is an beginning, there is an end.
                        Where there is an end, there is a new beginning.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KimberlyD View Post
                          I know that the ocean is a good distance from the fire outbreak, but they are close enough I don't understand why they did not just use sea water. Sea water contains salt which can put out a fire better then regular water can... of course there would be minor ecological damages because the salt could kill some of the plant life that is not effected by the fire, but they could stop the fire faster and save more of that plant life then by just letting it rage on.

                          I hope by now the entire fire has been extinguished. I wonder what the effect would be of using the ocean water. I don't know much about desalination, or if it's a very complicated project, but it would be great if they could somehow desalinate the ocean water and store it in areas where such fires tend to happen. That might decrease the extent of the damage that would occur with future fires.

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                          • #14
                            According to this NPR interview with a member of California’s Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, one of the biggest problems in using ocean water is the risk of corrosion to equipment.

                            DANIEL BERLANT: Water is definitely an issue this year. One of the reasons the state is really trying to get residents to conserve water is water is our main tactic to suppress wildland fires. So we need water to put out fires in emergencies.

                            PFEIFFER: The water that you're using, is it coming from rivers, reservoirs? Is it ever ocean water?

                            BERLANT: Typically we will use freshwater. The saltwater can oftentimes corrode our equipment. But rivers, reservoirs, lake, ponds, streams, anywhere where we can get a water source. Oftentimes it may be even a swimming pool. We also do use techniques, though, and really during our containment of fires try to limit the amount of water we are using to ensure that obviously we have that water for emergency situations.
                            From what I understand, many aircraft's use a mixture of fresh water, Ammonium sulfate/phosphate and Guar gum which isn't nearly as corrosive as NaCl, plus it makes for a good fertilizer.

                            This website provides a little more on the difficulties in using salt water with aircraft's:

                            Most firefighting aircraft are capable of dropping either salt or fresh water. However, for helicopters that are equipped with bellytanks that use hover-fill pumps, or with buckets on ‘short’ lines, we do tend to prefer to use fresh water if possible. This is to avoid the chance of ingesting salt into the turbine engines, and into some particular parts of the airframe that are susceptible to corrosion – all of which requires substantial extra maintenance at the end of the day. However, in an emergency, any suitable water supply will be used, including sea water, and the extra maintenance will be undertaken.
                            Diane Lane likes this.

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                            • #15
                              While looking for more regarding Diane Lane the possibility of incorporating desalination into improving the water supplies, I came across this recent article which takes a look at firefighters looking to alternative water resources.

                              While looking for alternative sources, the biggest body of water, the ocean, is not the first option."We would prefer not to use seawater or salt water when we have fresh water or potable water available," Gater said. "Even well water is more desirable when using sea water, it is possible to use sea water, but not without increased risk of damage and maintenance costs to the engine pipes."

                              "There are so many more things in salt water so it is really corrosive," says fire mechanic, Jeremy Schmidt. "It would just eat the piping."
                              This lends further credence to the problems with using salt water and why desalination could be beneficial in battling the wildfires. Further backing this up, is this article earlier in the month which takes a look at the partnership between the Pacific Gas & Electric company and the San Luis Obispo County to provide additional water for firefighters in California. The utility company has entered into a water-sharing agreement with the county for their Dibalo Canyon Power Plant. As part of the plan, the power plant will provide desalinated water to the county's Office of Emergency Services in an attempt to reduce the impact of using local water supplies to fight the wildfires.

                              The ongoing drought is only going to further intensify wildfire risk in our county, leading to the tapping of critical local water supplies to fight fires," said Ed Halpin, senior vice president and chief nuclear officer at PG&E, in a statement. "At the same time, dry conditions brought on by the drought are already reducing the amount of water that is available to meet community needs and services. Using water from Diablo Canyon's desalination facility is a terrific solution to bridge this gap and to help meet an important community need."

                              The Diablo Canyon Power Plant is a nuclear power facility that has two units that produce around 2,300 MW of power -- nearly 10 percent of all electricity generated in California.

                              The plant's desalination facility uses a process to remove salt from ocean water for daily operation of the plant -- at a rate of more than 450 gallons per minute. The state of California permits PG&E to produce around 1.5 million gallons a day.
                              Diane Lane likes this.

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                              • Diane Lane
                                Diane Lane commented
                                Editing a comment
                                That sounds great, since California typically seems to have such a water shortage. dillinger10 I'm glad they're working on this now, since the shortage doesn't seem to be resolving, and using potable water for putting out fires seems to be a waste, if there is any possible way to desalinate the ocean water and use that.
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